Asperger’s Experiences & Personal Growth: Stephen’s Evolution

The Impact of Inclusive Environments on Autistic Children

• Stephen McHugh • Episode 38

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Ever wondered how small acts of kindness can transform the lives of children with autism? Join me on this episode as I share my personal journey growing up on the autism spectrum, from facing language development delays to experiencing the profound impact of empathy and collaboration from peers. You'll learn the importance of fostering understanding and kindness towards autism and discover practical tips for parents, teachers, and caregivers to help children relate to and support their autistic peers.

Empathy and diversity take centre stage as I aim to highlight how embracing individual strengths can create a more inclusive society. Through storytelling, I look to uncover the power of connecting through shared interests and talents. By focusing on autistic strengths such as musical abilities, memory, attention to detail, and creativity, we can boost confidence and foster a sense of achievement. Personal stories reveal how recognising and celebrating these strengths can bridge gaps and build meaningful relationships.

Creating supportive environments is crucial for autistic individuals, and I discuss strategies I believe can manage sensory sensitivities and enhance socialization. Reflecting on my primary school experiences, I recall how supportive peers and adults played a vital role in my social development and helped me navigate more complicated social cues. Engaging in activities like bike rides and school plays fostered a sense of belonging, emphasising the lasting impact of empathy and inclusion. Tune in to explore how small and simple acts of kindness can lead to a more accepting world for children on the autism spectrum.

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Thanks for listening. You can find me on my website stephensevolution.com, or on twitter here. You can sign up to receive news of new episodes when they're released here.


Artwork produced by Elena Designe
Music composed by Nela Ruiz

Fostering and Understanding of Autism

Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Stephen's Evolution podcast. I hope you all had a wonderful and relaxing summer break. At the same time, it's great to be back here myself with you again after my break for the summer, as we dive into a brand new episode. I'm Stephen McHugh, your host, and in this podcast, I create episodes every two weeks based on my lived experiences on the autism spectrum where I share insights, challenges I faced and related stories that I hope will not only resonate with other people on the spectrum, but also help others better understand what life is like for people like me. 

Before we get into the main part of the episode, I'd like to just mention to you that this episode may touch on some personal and sensitive topics. You may want to listen to the episode when children aren't around or, alternatively, review it beforehand if you wish to share it with younger listeners. In this particular episode, it is a new academic year and I'm using this opportunity to talk about something I consider important:  how to talk to children about autism.

I plan to talk about how we can foster empathy and understanding among young people and how we can help children and make sure they understand how other children on the spectrum can be included and feel supported too. During the episode, I aim to share personal stories from my education years. During it, there'll be some things about the challenges I faced and how even small acts of kindness and understanding from other people, including my peers and teachers, made an important difference to me. 

I also plan to come up with tips on how adults, whether parents, teachers or know someone who supports someone on the spectrum can help children to understand autism in ways that are relatable and compassionate.

 I want to remind you that this is a substantial episode, so I'll include links to the various sections of the episode and you can click on whatever sections may pique your curiosity. You can listen to it at times and at rates you feel suit you. Let's get started.

I'm going to start off by sharing a bit about my own personal lived experiences growing up on the autism spectrum, paying close attention to my years of education when I attended school. It was during a time when very little was known about autism. People may have been just starting to learn something about it and even, I must admit, looking back, I hadn't even heard of it myself. 

Whenever I interacted with others, there were times when it seemed to them like I wasn't listening to what they were saying and they would interpret these behaviours as rude, these behaviours as rude. However, the truth was what I was trying to do. I was trying to process what I was hearing and, at the same time, what was happening around me in my own ways. Looking back to these moments, I can now realise how such misunderstandings made me feel quite down and isolated. Sometimes I wasn't being rude. All I was doing was simply taking time to process and understand the information from my peers. I often needed more time than my peers to process information.

Stephen McHugh 5:34

Back in primary school, there were moments when I struggled due to my language development delays. These made it more difficult for me to apply new knowledge and understand what I was being asked to do clearly. This would sometimes lead to frustration for both my peers and myself. However, it wasn't all challenging. There were positive experiences as well. There was a time when me and a few of my classmates worked together, like as a team on a particular task.

For the particular task in question, there were a series of clues like 9P in the SS, which was nine planets in the solar system, and 10Y in a D, which was ten years in a decade. Here, it was all about figuring out these clues. It was moments like these that I feel helped make a significant difference. They remind me that, despite any difficulties one may have, there can always be opportunities to connect, learn and grow together. What the experiences taught me here was they taught me a lot about understanding and patience, both from my point of view and other people who may be around me.

What I believe here is that if we can share such stories, they can all help us to remember and highlight the importance of empathy and kindness when interacting with someone who experiences the world and processes information a little differently to what others might expect.


Explaining Autism in a Simple Way

Stephen McHugh 7:53

To put it simply in my own words, autism is just a different way of experiencing life. There can be differences in terms of how one sees and hears the world around them. In the past, there were differences in my behaviour compared to what most other people might have expected. Here I don't just mean noticing details that other people might not see or hear.

 Out in nature, I might see the different ways in which the leaves and branches on trees may move as the wind blows, or the ways in which light may reflect off a window or other things. Differences like these in processing information meant that I took longer to understand information or something, or it took longer for me to respond in ways that might have seemed unusual to others.

For me, it's just, in my words, different. All our minds work in their own unique ways, and mine just happens to work that little bit differently. It's not about being less or more. For me, autism is also about diversity in terms of how we think, feel, see, hear and experience the world around us, and it is this diversity which can make each of us unique and special. So whenever you come across someone on the autism spectrum, just take a moment to think and bear in mind about the different ways in which they might see and hear the world. It can be their differences which bring their own unique strengths and perspectives that can be valuable and worth exploring and understanding more about.


Things in Common and Differences

Stephen McHugh 10:28

And now, what I'd like to do is share a bit about how, despite differences in how I've experienced the world, there were always plenty of things in common between me and my peers at school. Like all the rest, I had a desire to involve myself in the same subjects and related activities that they were all doing. I was keen to participate, whether it was in the classroom environment, in the playground or on the school playing fields.

And, of course, my music. My interest in it deserves a mention, and was fortunate enough to be given opportunities at school to showcase my abilities in school orchestras or solo. What I remember from moments like these is feeling a sense of belonging. Whenever I played an instrument, be it myself or alongside any classmate, we were all unique in our own ways. Despite this, we were able to create wonderful things together as a whole group in an orchestra. Music had offered me a way to connect with others and also another way in which I could express myself and show my true abilities.

Stephen McHugh 12:08

Then there was the matter of physical education. This wasn't one of my strongest subjects and had some challenges with coordination and following instructions, especially if I found them complicated and given out quickly. However, I didn't let these put me off wanting to be part of whatever sporting activity was taking place. I always wanted to engage in the activities as much as I could and found some of the simpler tasks I could carry out successfully and more easily. I always gave it my best effort, no matter what activity I found myself participating in, and the teachers recognised my efforts. And the teachers recognized my efforts In this particular section.

Stephen McHugh 13:11

What I wanted to highlight here was that, even though, despite my different ways of processing and engaging with the world around me, there were always plenty of ways in which I could join in with my peers. I might have approached things differently, but there was always something in common to be found, and that's what I think can be very important for people to remember even when someone seems different to what is considered to be the norm. 

One should always have shared interests and activities, and through these we can all be brought together. It's all about finding those connections and celebrating things that we share together and the things that make each and every one of us unique.


Empathy and Understanding Through Personal Growth 14:13

And now I want to move on to an example of how empathy and understanding some of my other peers played a crucial role in making me feel included, especially during my school years. Sometimes I think back to how even small gestures of kindness can make noticeable differences and think about how they helped me to feel more included and supported.

Stephen McHugh 14:46

I'd like to talk about and remember a specific experience during one PE session, when our group was divided into smaller groups to complete a particular task, I became anxious because I would struggle with coordination and following any fast-paced instructions. I wasn't sure about how I could keep up with the group or understand the task very quickly. However, one of the group members thought I looked a bit hesitant and took the time to explain the task to me in a clear and simple way. To explain the task to me in a clear and simple way. This approach made it much easier for me to understand and feel more comfortable participating. Looking back, this small act helped me to feel more included and capable, even in a setting where I could sometimes feel a little bit out of place. This highlights the power of empathy in action and how understanding one's differences can bridge the gap between the differences themselves.

Stephen McHugh 16:10

What these experiences taught me is the importance of empathy and understanding. For me, it's all about identifying that each and every one of us has our own unique and different needs and looking for ways to try and meet such needs so that everyone can feel more comfortable and included. Moments of empathy I experienced here helped my confidence. It showed me that with the right support in place, we can all thrive together. 

In terms of empathy and understanding, it's not all about just being aware of one's differences. Once you notice one's differences, one should take steps to make sure that one feels seen, heard, included and valued. This is something we can all learn from, no matter what our experiences or backgrounds.


Embracing Strengths and Interests

Stephen McHugh 17:26

Storytelling, for me, can be another ideal way to promote empathy and understanding. This can be especially true when it comes to looking for and sharing one's unique strengths and interests one may have.  All of us have our own special abilities and passions, and it can be through identifying these that can help us to connect on a deeper level. One of my unique strengths and interests includes music and being able to play the piano, being good with mental arithmetic, and having knowledge of obscure facts, in subjects that I have a great interest in, for example, astronomy. 

I could spend some considerable time learning about distant stars, planets and galaxies, or challenging myself with complicated maths problems that others might find very difficult. They were more than just hobbies for me. Through these interests, I could engage with the world in a different way, express myself and feel more confident about myself.

Stephen McHugh 19:01

But having said that, it's important to always remember that each person on the autism spectrum is different and will have their own unique strengths, interests and abilities, and will have their own unique strengths, interests and abilities. While I might be passionate about music and numbers, somebody else might have an interest and talent in drawing and painting, or have an incredible knowledge of historical facts, about historical events of the past. It can be due to these differences in our strengths and interests that what make us unique and valuable like comparing them all to being different colours of the rainbow or different colours and shapes on a painting, making an attractive picture,

People on the autism spectrum have a wide range of talents and interests that can help to enrich our communities and have a lot to offer. It can be through sharing these stories of our unique abilities and interests that we can help others see beyond the label of autism. We can show the wider public that everyone has something special and unique to offer, even if it's not immediately obvious.

If we take the time to understand someone's interests and unique strengths, we can learn more about what makes them different. In the process, we're learning more about what makes them who they are, which is important to remember. So, whether it's sharing one's own interests or the interests of someone else. 

Storytelling can help to bridge gaps and build connections between us. It can act as a reminder that, while we all have our unique strengths and qualities, there is also a common thread of passion and purpose that can help tie us together. It can be through identifying and celebrating such differences that one can truly promote empathy, compassion and understanding. 

And now I want to move on to the importance of focusing on strength and increasing acceptance. Focusing on strength and increasing acceptance, especially when it comes to individuals on the autism spectrum. When I think about it, it can be easy to get caught up in what might be perceived as challenging. However, I think it's equally, if not more, important to look at and celebrate the unique strengths that each of us on the spectrum can bring and contribute to society.

Stephen McHugh 22:26

I've always had a good memory, and one way this has been a great asset for me was in helping me to excel in French, where I could memorise vocabulary and important phrases. Looking back, this was a strength that gave me the confidence and a sense of achievement, showing that there are many ways to succeed. Music has been another important part of my life and identity. Back in primary school, I was fortunate enough to be given a role in the orchestra for a school play which was musical. It was titled the Wizard of Oz. Music, as I look at it now, became a way for me to express myself and connect with others. There were times in secondary school when some of my peers there spotted my passion for music and sometimes wanted to hear me play the piano. Looking back, this was another example of how I felt included and appreciated.

Stephen McHugh 24:00

Another strength I'd like to talk about that I've developed over time is attention to detail. This has been incredibly valuable for me in professional settings in the past. One example was in a job where I had to try and spot small details in a document and match it up to the correct record, ensuring accuracy and efficiency. 

Creativity is another area where I found a new strength, found a new strength. Over time, I've developed a creative mind and ways to think more creatively, which has been helpful to me in some ways. One of my favourite outlets has been creative writing. In one blog post, I've written short stories and used idioms with the aim of making them easier for people on the autism spectrum to understand. From my experiences, this has been a way to allow me to use my creativity, but also not only that. Through it, I've seen it not as a way to just express myself, but also I see it as a way to make language more accessible.

Stephen McHugh 25:28

These strengths:  a good memory, musical talent, attention to detail and having creativity are a number of examples of how people on the autism spectrum can have unique and special abilities that can lead to other lives being enriched, along with doing the same for the lives of those around them. It can be important for adults, be they parents, teachers or employers, to focus on such strengths and create settings to help their strengths be recognised and nurtured. If we focus on what we can do rather than what they might struggle with, we can go a long way to creating a culture of both acceptance and support. 

For me, it can be about seeing everyone's potential and understanding that each person and every one of us has something valuable to offer the world. By encouraging people to embrace their strengths and interests, what we can do is, I believe we can help them to build confidence and find their place in the world more readily, and that's a precious gift we are all capable of giving, regardless of our differences.


Sensory Sensitivities 27:11

There's another important thing that I wish to talk about when discussing autism, and it is to do with sensory differences. Each and every one of us on the autism spectrum can experience the world differently and in our own ways, and for some of us certain sensory inputs like sounds or lights or other things can feel more intense or even overwhelming.

Stephen McHugh 27:49

I had issues with loud noises. That was the sensory sensitivity that was most obvious in my case. When I was diagnosed, my case was compared to me as if I was in the Pacific Ocean, far enough out to feel the waves but still close enough to the shore to be within safe reach of it. One way I would adapt to noisy areas was by finding quieter areas in busy places, for example, during lunchtime at school, when most kids would be naturally playing and running around outside and making noise in the playground. There were occasions when I could take a break from all the stimulation and noise by having a calm space to go to helped me to avoid feeling overwhelmed by the noise.

To avoid feeling overwhelmed by the noise, another strategy was mentally preparing myself for situations where there was likely to be more noise or activity. If I was told in advance that I would be going into an environment where there was more in the way of noise and activity, like the school canteen, I could prepare myself mentally. This approach would help me to feel less overwhelmed and more in control.

I would also find being in smaller groups easier for me. In such settings I would feel more comfortable and confident that I could join in, and it would be easier for me to focus and interact with the other members of the group without being overwhelmed by everything going on around me within the group itself.

Stephen McHugh 30:02

These are just a few examples of how sensory differences helped to shape my experiences, even though I saw them as only mild. Even though I saw them as only mild, they still had enough of an impact on me in terms of how I navigated the world by understanding these and other sensory differences. It can be an important part of understanding being on the autism spectrum. This can help others to recognize why certain settings may be challenging for us and how even small adjustments can make noticeable differences. 


Embracing Curiosity and Asking Questions 30:56

And now, in this next section, I want to try and emphasise the importance of being curious and encouraging people to ask questions if they recognize that there's something different about someone when it comes to autism. In my opinion, one ideal way to create understanding is to be open to learning more about how those of us on the spectrum can experience the world.

Stephen McHugh 31:33

In my case, my differences were more noticeable in the ways in which I communicated and interacted with other people and the world in general, along with differences in how I processed information. I sometimes would have difficulty processing and would interpret language using different mechanisms to other people. This could make it more challenging for me to follow conversations, especially if I was in a group of people.

In a group of people, trying to understand voice tones or read various forms of body language wasn't easy for me either, and sometimes this could lead to misunderstandings in discussions. There were times when people may have noticed that I was on my own more often than not, and this might have raised questions about why I wasn't engaging in conversations or groups as much as others may have done. But it wasn't because I didn't want to be involved. But it wasn't because I didn't want to be involved.

Stephen McHugh 32:58

I would find it hard to work out how to start or join in. This is one example of where curiosity could come into play when I was sitting alone. One approach could have been to ask a question: a simple one,  like do you want to join in with us or how can we make it easier for you to join in? An approach such as this, I believe, could make a world of difference. 

Another example where questions could be really beneficial would have been trying to understand my struggle about trying to fit in. For me, it was about the differences in which I processed things. While others may have picked up on social cues or things like that, naturally, I would often need a bit more time or support to work out what was happening.

Stephen McHugh 34:06

Questions like is there anything we can do to help you feel more comfortable? Or what are your interests and what kinds of conversations or activities do you enjoy? This could help create more inclusive environments and pave the way to better communication between people. I believe that by encouraging people to ask questions, it can allow for more in terms of open dialogue and lead to better understanding. This can be about showing genuine curiosity and interest in who one is. Questions showing that you care and that you're willing to put in the time to learn about what makes each of us unique. So, if one should notice someone who may be struggling or who is different in some ways, one shouldn't be afraid to ask questions. It can be potentially a great way to learn from each other, which can, in turn, lead to more supportive and understanding communities. 


Strategies for Inclusive Play and Interactions 35:38

Another way to create a setting where one feels more included, especially for kids on the autism spectrum, is by doing it through play and interactive activities. Sporting activities and games can be great opportunities for socialising, but at the same time, challenges can come with them if certain rules aren't immediately clear. Now I'd like to take this opportunity to share some of my own experiences from the past and offer a few simple strategies where play and interaction can be more inclusive for all concerned.

Stephen McHugh 36:27

Going back to when I was in primary school, I would occasionally join in football games. During sessions of physical education, there were occasionally football games.  I learned and understood the basic rules well enough to participate. There is one game that stands out in my mind.  I wanted to feel what it was like to score a goal. One tactic I employed here was to stand near the goal later in the session. This approach helped me to score two goals, which I was really excited about, but later afterwards I was told that at least one of the goals may have been offside by one of my peers. 

I was left confused, mainly because I'd never heard of the term offside. This made me realise how important it can be to explain the rules of games in ways that everyone can understand, particularly when someone might not know or understand all the specific details.

Stephen McHugh 37:47

During my time in secondary school, there were occasions when I would join in football games during lunch times or I would just watch from the sidelines. Being a spectator, I found, was a bit more comfortable for me, as I could enjoy the game without feeling any pressure to perform well or keep up with all the rules. However, during times when I did participate, I would always be appreciative when other people in my year or class would explain things for a particular game in clear and simple ways. One strategy that I can think of that can really help make play more inclusive is to break down the rules of a game being planned beforehand. In addition, one can encourage different types of participation.

 Some people like me might not have felt comfortable joining the middle of a fast-paced game, but I would enjoy playing in a position that involved minimal movement, or even just being a spectator. By offering different options here, it can make it easier for everyone to feel involved in a way that suits their comfort levels. A bit of patience and understanding here can go a long way. If someone doesn't understand a rule or needs more time to get used to a game and understand the rules themselves. Encouraging them rather than pointing out mistakes can help to build one's confidence and make their experience more enjoyable.

 It can be all about identifying that everyone can participate in their own ways. It can be about making sure that everyone feels included and that no one is confused and that everyone concerned has chances to join in and have fun.


Role Models 40:20

Stephen McHugh 

And now I want to talk about the role of positive role models, particularly from my time at primary school, who took the time to understand my needs and were flexible in finding ways to support me. 

 Following my diagnosis. My school at the time, I found, was incredibly supportive, and I think what's important here is to highlight how much of a difference their approach made in my personal development and education. One key element was the school affording liaison between home and school. This allowed me to work on things at home that supported what I was doing in class. For me, this would create a more consistent environment where I felt supported both at school and at home.

Stephen McHugh 41:24

One area where I needed more support was in understanding language, voice tones and various forms of body language. This, I found, can be a challenge for many of us on the autism spectrum. At times for me, it made it hard to tell if someone was being friendly, sarcastic or mean. I would sometimes have difficulty identifying whether or not I was experiencing bullying behaviours. Fortunately, there would be moments when some of my peers would point instances of this out to me. Their help in situations like this, where they would point out such situations more clearly, along with their guidance, would make a huge difference into how I perceived and reacted to social interactions in the times following.

By having role models who are willing to take the time to explain things in straightforward and compassionate ways have helped me to understand better social cues that weren't always obvious to me. Such support showed me what positive behaviour can look like, and it helped to reinforce that kindness and understanding can make a noticeable difference in someone's life. This is the sort of behaviour that we should all strive for. It is to be aware of others' needs and help out in small but very meaningful ways. 

It was more than just teaching me the rules of social engagement. It was about making me feel seen and valued. Role models can come in all forms, be they teachers, parents or classmates. They can all have lasting impacts by simply taking the time to understand someone's unique challenges, how they view the world, and offering support in ways that make more sense to them. Here, when it comes to modelling positive behaviours, it can be about more than just being kind. It's about creating settings where we all feel included, valued and understood, where differences are respected and where we can all learn from each other's experiences, strengths and challenges, especially where challenges are overcome.


Peer Support and Friendships

Stephen McHugh 44:37

Going back to my primary school years, I had a number of friends from my year. There were times when we would often go on our adventures together. We'd go on bike rides through local fields and even climb trees. These adventures, looking back, were simple and, at the same time, very meaningful to me. The adventures gave me an opportunity to explore and feel a sense of freedom. Most importantly, it was these connections that gave me a sense of belonging and inclusion, even when things weren't always easy. 

There were times when we spent time at each other's houses and we would engage ourselves in games like snooker and pool. One thing I remember is learning and better understanding the rules about such games. These were experiences that I enjoyed. It was more than just about playing the games themselves. It was more about the inclusion and learning new things alongside my friends. Looking back, such moments were beneficial in my growth. Having them to guide me through new activities and understand them would make me feel like I was truly belonging to a group.

Roles of Adults

Stephen McHugh 46:23

During some of my school years, in primary school, one thing I learned was how supportive adults can make a huge difference in one's experience. Encouragement and opportunities I was given gave me the confidence to try out new things, and feel more in terms of inclusion, regardless of my abilities or any challenges that I faced. One moment here that really stands out in my mind was when I participated in a school play. In my mind was when I participated in a school play Oliver Twist. I was given a simple role as one of the workhouse boys. I only had to call out one line. Well, it was two words, to be exact. This small part meant the world to me.

Stephen McHugh 47:19

For me, it's not all about how big or small roles are, but it was the way in which the school made sure how every child who participated in the play, regardless of abilities, had a chance to do their bit and be involved in their own unique ways. Such inclusions like this can create environments where one can feel welcome and valued, which was what I felt at the time. For me, one could see that I had something to contribute. A place for me in the play could be found. This just goes to show that roles can even be found in activities where one might not naturally excel.

Stephen McHugh 48:10

In addition, what really actually stood out to me about my primary school was the culture built around inclusion. It was more than just the academic side or extracurricular activities, to name a few, that made sure that children of all abilities got opportunities. Extra support for those of us who needed it could be allocated it. The aim of this was to try and help create more in terms of a level playing field. This kind of approach wasn't just about meeting my needs or my specific needs. The way I look at it now, it was one way to foster a setting where everyone could thrive as best they could. Such an environment gave me the chance to showcase some of my unique talents, particularly my musical talents. Thanks to this supportive culture created, I was able to contribute to various musical performances at the school whenever the opportunities arose.

Stephen McHugh 49:24

It was these experiences that gave my confidence a boost. Adults there, like my teachers at the time, also played a key role in helping me to see and use my strengths and encourage me and allow me to develop them. What they made sure was that I had the tools, time and space to succeed in areas where I could shine, even if I sometimes struggled in other subject areas. Reflecting on these experiences, I realise now just how important the involvement of the role of supportive adults can be in terms of shaping a child's development and progress. It's more than just academic success. An important thing is creating inclusive and welcoming environments where every child can feel valued. When adults take the time to try and understand a child's unique abilities and the challenges they may face, granting them opportunities to participate can have lasting impacts. It is small gestures like these that can help a child feel confident, capable and like they actually feel included.

Conclusion and Outro

Stephen McHugh 50:58

And now, as we come to the conclusion of this episode, it is an opportunity for me to reflect on my journey growing up on the autism spectrum. What's become clear to me is how much support I received, along with empathy and understanding, and how it helped to shape my experiences. Whether it was friends, classmates offering small gestures of kindness or assistance, or my teachers giving me opportunities to showcase my strengths, it was these moments of support that helped me to navigate a world that would, at times, feel overwhelming. However, it's not all about what others did. It's about continuing this conversation. One thing I truly believe is that by talking openly about autism, especially with children, this, for me, I believe, is essential for creating more inclusive settings and society in general.

Stephen McHugh 52:11

At the time of recording this, we're moving into a new academic year. Therefore, I saw this as an opportunity to record this episode, and now I encourage you to try and reflect on how one can play a part in fostering understanding, curiosity and empathy in the people around you. Before I wrap up, I'm offering you the opportunity to stay connected with me. 

If you enjoyed this episode and want to stay updated on future episodes and podcast-related news, head over to a section close to the footer of my website's homepage, stephensevolution.com. Here you can click on a link to be taken to a form where you can fill in your details and you will be amongst the first to receive news of the released episodes and other podcast-related news. 

And, in the meantime, if you have any thoughts or questions, feel free to text my podcast via my host, Buzzsprout in the episode's description. I'm always eager, and looking out for any of your questions or comments. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. I look forward to continuing my journey with you. Take care, and remember the importance of including and supporting one another.